Linguistic Ableism: What is it?

**This podcast was recorded using Zoom | August 8, 2022 **

CONTENT WARNING: This episode will be addressing linguistic ableism. You will be hearing ableist terminology at various points throughout the episode to showcase the harms of discriminatory language. Please proceed accordingly.

In recent news, popular artists Lizzo and Beyoncé  both released songs that included an ableist slur, in which disability rights advocates and allies publicly addressed. To speak on these events, DRNY’s CAP & PABSS Program Director, Erica Molina, and PADD Senior Advocate, Nancy Nowak, discuss linguistic ableism, the harms of hegemonic ableist structures, and the importance of education & appropriate criticism to enact social and cultural change.

*Show Notes*

• https://www.npr.org/2022/06/14/1104925003/lizzo-rerecords-grrrls-criticism-ableism
• https://www.wsj.com/articles/beyonce-to-replace-lyric-on-renaissance-after-backlash-from-disability-rights-advocates-11659379627?st=88ecbbt1i92xvq5&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
• https://www.insider.com/beyonce-lizzo-changed-lyrics-ableism-black-artists-double-standard-2022-8
• https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/02/beyonce-lizzo-ableism
• https://www.npr.org/2022/08/08/1115682836/how-to-talk-about-disability-sensitively-and-avoid-ableist-tropes
• https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/16/opinion/blind-ableist-language.html
• https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/eminem-still-using-word-retarded-thats-issue-205128399.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAjLJLYuBokmtiBFIH92-0UdcUoHYloiNLBfqlKr3M2iEsMtb7OI7N89fzY9USJT6EUQuOxvgMvuAy0gKqAcTFdTVUnCR-3WSKaNdUYmxO1C_LayDL66Do8gupMNPVifSR9-bkMHNGwRw4FlWl4a9kXVMRlHHhg5sS_1bFAIIb9n
• https://themighty.com/topic/disability/taylor-swift-brendon-urie-me-lame-psycho
• https://nashtastic.com/2016/07/01/is-albino-a-derogatory-word/
• The Incredibles (2004) scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YYX7hZa

Transcript

- Content warning: the following episode will be addressing linguistic ableism. You will be hearing ableist terminology at various points throughout the episode to showcase the harms of discriminatory language. Please proceed accordingly. 

-This is Katrin with Disability Rights New York. Welcome to our podcast, Empire State of Rights: Closed Captioned. We are here to bring you information on the most relevant topics regarding disability rights and advocacy. Recently in the news, popular artist Lizzo released a single titled "Grrrls" with some controversy attached to it. And soon after its release, fans and disability advocates were shocked to find an ableist slur in the song. The lyrics read as follows. "I'm a spaz, I'm about to knock somebody out." After learning about the slur and being educated on its negative connotations, Lizzo immediately issued an apology to address the harmful term and re-recorded the song to replace the lyrics with "Hold me back." And what's interesting is just a couple of weeks later, Beyoncé then also released a song called "Heated" from her Renaissance album. And both Lizzo and Beyoncé́'s accountability serve as an example of how activism can lead to constructive change and education regarding harmful language. What's interesting is that it was the exact same word in both songs. And so today, we're gonna talk about ableism and language, and we're welcoming DRNY's CAP and PABSS program director, Erica Molina, and she is joined by PADD senior advocate, Nancy Nowak. We're going to discuss the linguistic ableism, the harms of hegemonic ableist structures, and the importance of education and appropriate criticism to enact social and cultural change. Erica, Nancy, thank you so much for joining us today.

- Thanks for having us.

- Happy to be here.

- And so the introduction was definitely, we wanted to be very clear on what the words were and what we were talking about today, and I'm going to break it down conversationally a little bit. We had two songs that came out in the last, almost eight weeks now, and both of them included an ableist slur. And so, when we talk about ableism and we talk about language and how words mean something, there's a lot of people that still don't know what ableism is or what ableist means, so Erica, will you start by letting our audience know what is ableism, and what is ableist? And how does it really move into all of the words that we use every day?

- Sure, thank you, Katrin. It is exactly right, what you said. I think ableist language is really baked in to our every day vocabulary unfortunately, and in particular for formal definition of ableism, I think it is a good place to start to cite disability advocate Talila A. Lewis's working definition of ableism, which is that ableism is a system that places value on people's bodies and minds based solely on societally constructed ideas of normalcy, intelligence, and excellence, end quote. Basically meaning that folks are really judged by, from a lens of who can do what, and whenever someone's body or their mind or some combination of the two doesn't let them do a particular thing that most other people can do, such as seeing with your eyes, hearing with your eyes, walking with your legs, or processing fully with your brain certain types of conversation. When those things aren't part of a person's abilities, they're judged for it, and there is language in the culture that really does reflect that ableist point of view.

- Erica, as we've talked about this outside of the podcast, and even in preparation for this podcast today, you had said, you know, that this is the process of using diagnosis as descriptors or as adjectives and that, for me, really hit the nail on the head. That was very much, that landed on me in a way that made so much sense, and I thought it would make sense for the audience to hear that in the way that we, how we describe, whether it's an event, a person, or a series of circumstances. When using adjectives that are diagnosis-based, that is an ableist and also a form of ableism. Would you agree that that's correct?

- Absolutely, absolutely.

- And Nancy, do you have anything to add to the, to the definition itself, or to how language is, is impacted by an ableist or an ableist community?

- I think, you know, ableism is really, it leads to society making a basis on who's worthy based on their appearance or their abilities, which is just totally ludicrous and unfair, and it's something that we need to all be aware of so we can be the change.

- And so, I'm not sure if either of you had heard either of the songs. I definitely listened to Lizzo and Beyoncé both. And hearing the songs, and whether it's a song, the music is great or the rhythm is great, the word, sometimes we don't learn them until we've heard the song over and over again. When we, when I heard this song originally after the article, hearing "spaz" is definitely something that made me bristle. Talk to me about your initial reactions and let's talk a little bit about the history of the word itself and the negative meanings it contains regarding the disability community. And Erica, if you wanna start?

- Sure, Katrin, I'll be honest, I, the first I heard about this particular issue with the, with the two different songs over the last several weeks was via an article. I, I don't follow Lizzo's music that closely, but I do follow her more as a-- more as an icon to larger black women who, you know, who play flutes, which is one of her great talents. I think she's a very independent and very cool person, so I follow her in that way. And I'll say that when I learned through an article though, that this issue had come up that, that "spaz", or the word "spaz" rather, was in her song stated a few times, I didn't fully understand personally the definition of "spaz" or at least where it came from, so I definitely know that even as a disabled person, which I am a person with a disability, there's always something to learn and it certainly was a new word to me. So what we do know is that "spaz" is short for ... something like the word "spastic." Folks with cerebral palsy for example, there are different types of cerebral palsy, or CP for short, and something that can describe certain muscle movements that people have and lack of range in motion and the movements that they can or can't make sometimes because of the disability sometimes are categorized as being spastic, that there are involuntary movements, muscle tightness, so it very much is a, spastic is meant to describe the type of, in this case anyway, CP that a person might have, or informing other diagnoses and other characteristic of a separate medical diagnoses. So folks who deal with spastic paralysis have those types of characteristics to their muscles that do make it difficult to move or difficult to control their own legs and their muscles in different ways, but the word itself as "spaz" I learned is actually become commonplace. It is something that is used, and I think Lizzo meant this initially in her song by putting it in there, that as a "spaz" you are a quote-unquote klutz or you're uncool or not, not even-keeled in a certain way. Basically something is going wrong or malfunctioning with you and for that reason, you're spazzing out or you are a "spaz". And I also, I think in British slang terms, "spaz" can also be used to describe an incompetent person, but again, it is ableist.

- Erica, let me just add that it is not being kind. It is not a kind word. You are not being called a "spaz" if someone, it is not a compliment.

- It is not. It is not. It's purely derogatory, pejorative. It is meant as an insult, either self-deprecating or deprecating to someone else when the word is used.

- And Nancy, do you have anything that you'd like to add to that?

- You know, we have to stop and think about the person who does have spastic paralysis, you know? And how they feel when they hear words like this used in a negative connotation. It's, it's, it's just blatantly, you know, a wrong way of using the word, and it's a shame, like Erica said, that it's become so commonplace that even these high profile singers and, you know, folks think that they can use it so readily. And there are so many more, so many more words.

- Well, that leads us really into the next question or topic of discussion, really. "Spaz" really is one of the many, many words that are commonly used and it's not just in conversation. It's in print media, it's in movies, it's in television. And as we share some of these other harmful ableist terms, and if you are just tuning in at this point in the podcast, please be aware that as we are saying these words and talking about them, we are talking about them from the perspective of ableist language and the harm that they create, so please, again, I want to let everyone in the audience know that is why we are talking about these words. And I will say, even as I think about in my own past or history of whether it's writing or speaking, saying things like "turning a blind eye" or you know, something that was "deaf tone" or "falling on deaf ears," so those are some examples that I know of very readily. Nancy, do you want to talk a little bit about some that are easily for you to talk about right now?

- Yeah, the one that always comes to mind for me is, and people really think it's appropriate to use, is "wheelchair-bound" or "confined to a wheelchair," You know, we would never say somebody's confined to their legs-- you know? So it's just, it's not a kind way to say it, and I think that today, us talking about these things helps open people's eyes to some of the terminology that people think is okay. There are so many. There's people saying, and a lot of people don't realize, but people will say somebody who has albinism, they'll call them an "albino". I personally have very many friends that have albinism and it's extremely offensive to hear that, but that's one that I often hear that people don't know, so I'm glad that we're having this conversation for sure.

- There's certainly, like you said, Katrin, so, so, so many more that we could talk about, where they came from or what they were supposed to mean and what they mean now, but popular ones that I can think of include the word "lame" to describe somebody who is boring or uncool, right? We hear kids use it all time and adults as well. And for those who don't know how pervasive it is, there is actually a scene in the Disney movie "The Incredibles," where the bad guy, his name escapes me, he goes on a rant and he's angry because he's the bad guy, but one of the things that he goes on about, you can find a clip of it almost anywhere, even just to get the audio, which is he yells, "Lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame, lame." And he goes on this rant and he's angry. And why is he using the word "lame" instead of, "This is terrible," or, "This doesn't make any sense." What he's doing is-- with this he did and what the character was allowed to do was to really use a word that's supposed to mean someone or some sort of being that is just not able to do something physically, whose lost their ability to do something physically. I can think of in my mind, for example, of a lame horse, for example. That is something that used to be very commonly said or described as and the animal being lame, you can't use them anymore on the farm. Things like that. And for whatever reason, it's distilled down to this very okay and very established way of saying that somebody is just uncool or unable to do something, and that in itself is outrageous and it just shouldn't be.

- Really, the challenge for all of us is being present in the language that we're using, as well as being open and available to education and why these words should not be used in the way that they are culturally and socially, and of course when it comes to movies like "The Incredibles," which of course I saw probably 1,000 times because when your children are watching movies, you watch them over and over and over again. And so language becomes ingrained in part of the, what they are used to hearing, what they see, what is, you know, of course in these movies that they love, and it truly does have an impact. And so, as we talk about language, and of course how we are trying to make the change, Nancy, as you said, there are a lot of things that we need to be able to do. First of all, being able to have open conversations about saying, "Yeah, you know, I've used that word "and I didn't know what it meant at the time," or, "Now that I know better, I'll do better." And so as we think about moving forward, and of course cancel culture comes up, comes to mind of course also where, you know, the politically correct idea, right? Because this is not about being politically correct. This is actually about using words in the way that they were meant to as opposed to, going back to what Erica said, using adjectives and descriptions that are actual diagnosis. So if you could give any advice or experience on how someone should address others when somebody's using offensive or ableist language, let's talk a little bit about that. And Erica, you and I have had a lot of great conversations about, you know, the what would you do, or you know, how would you handle this situation? I think we've all been in conversations where someone says something that, you know, your ears kind of tingle or you think, "Oh my goodness," and a lot of times maybe want to correct someone, but maybe sometimes we don't. Let's talk a little bit about that. Erica, what are your thoughts?

- That's right, Katrin. I think that it is important to differentiate, That the goal of our having a healthy discussion today, for example, the goal is not to support canceling people. We don't want to cancel Lizzo. We don't. No one wants to cancel Beyoncé́, or anyone else for that matter. I think that certainly is not the goal. It means something for an artist of those, of that, of that caliber, of that level of popularity, whether Lizzo, Beyoncé́, or others in the music or other entertainment fields. It means something for them to bring into the conversation. "I have learned something, this is what this word means, "thank you for calling me out on it, "and I've addressed it, and here is how I'm going to "or have already addressed it." That can happen just between you and me in everyday conversations as well. I think it's important to, when, if you do come across someone in a conversation that is starting to use the type of language that perhaps you are not comfortable with or that you know perhaps doesn't personally affect you, but would certainly affect others, it is, I think, first of all very important that you don't encourage that language. If it's said as a joke, don't laugh. If it is said in a way that kind of is meant to make one group exclusive and then, you know, to the detriment of someone else, you know, question. "Wait, why? "I don't get it." And if that doesn't come up, one of the things I have always been a huge, huge proponent of is just making sure that you're not seeking to necessarily put the other person in their place, so to speak. You're not seeking to embarrass them. I find that I have the most success with these types of conversations one-on-one so that even if the language does come up in a group setting, maybe that's not the right time to call someone out on it. Depending on where you are, whether it's work or at a party that is not your party, you know? You might have to read the room a little bit to really understand whether or not this is a good time for a quote-unquote teaching moment, but I would encourage that even if that fails, you're trying to do something in the moment, and so you're doing it afterward. Give somebody a call or chat them up on Zoom and say, "Hey, do you have a second? "I want to talk to you about that presentation "that you did yesterday. "I thought it was great "and I just have a little bit of feedback for you." That's usually how I frame it if it is at a workplace. "Framing in some feedback and let me know "when you're open to receiving some feedback," especially if it was during the presentation or an important conversation at work. So that's just a suggestion as to how to handle it and I think in a couple different types of situations.

- Nancy, what are your thoughts?

- I definitely agree a lot with Erica. I do think that you need to be careful about how you address it and that you're not coming at the person, but you're there to assist them so that, educate them on the right terminology to use and what is not okay. But I do tend to definitely bring it up with my friends and my family if these words are used, and I've taught my son, you know, to make sure that he talks about it too with his friends. And it's always a nice thing when you're sitting nextdoor to their room and you hear them on PlayStation talking to their friends and the R-word comes up, you know? And somebody says, "retarded." And he's always the first person to say, "Hey guys, you know, that's not cool with me. "We don't go there. "It's not the word that we can, we wanna use." And they've asked, you know? "What's that all about?" And that's the thing. We've got to talk about it with everyone, you know? And not sideline those conversations so that our children, our friends, our elders that sometimes use these words more readily, understand that they are really offensive. And that's the way that we're going to start to get folks involved with the change.

- Nancy, you bring up two really good points. One of them of course using the R-word. And in-between the release of both of these songs, New York State actually made a change to the language of New York State law, which was, here we are in 2022 and it is now the year that the word "retardation" is coming out of New York State law. So, that is still a word that is very present in a lot of people's language and in their, it is not necessarily known why they're using it or where it even came from. And generationally, I do think, when we talk about people in our lives or in our families who are older, generationally, there was definitely different words and terms used, and often out here, "Well, you can't say that anymore," and the reality is you really never should have been saying that, and that's-- that is also a conversation that, that is more difficult with older generations. And I would be remiss if I didn't bring up something that we only just talked about minutes before we started today, and that is the issue of race when it comes to Lizzo and Beyoncé, right? So here we have two incredibly powerful, strong black women who have done so much for not only their own communities, but I think of the empowerment of women and young girls everywhere and people to truly own their identity. So Erica, can we talk a little bit about that and how when it comes to language, first of all, culturally we have so many different subsets of people in this country and around the world. Different language, different words are used in different communities. However, we're now talking about two women who are also black and they are also being criticized for their language specifically in music. Let's talk a little bit about that and how race plays a role in how the disability community and socially in general the reaction was to the words in the lyrics.

- I think it is an interesting part of the conversation and something that, like you said, we talked about literally just before, starting with the conversation today, it's important to, especially in a society like ours in 2022 when things happen so quickly, cancel culture, it happens at the speed of the internet and songs can be changed just as quickly apparently. And to their credit, I do want to say that Lizzo right away made her change, right? I think it's interesting that Beyoncé just six weeks later also released an album with the same term in it and then had to backtrack and do that same fix again. There, there is a-- a pattern in our society to very quickly point out folks who are not in the typical mainstream. When folks don't fit in or when they don't look or sound like others, and this goes beyond, obviously, people with disabilities, and right now I'm talking about race in particular, and women in particular, right, black women. So I think society's very quick to point down to that, yet another female, female artist who happens to be black and very, very culturally popular. "Oh, she made a mistake," and we're very quick to point that out. And then it happened again. A very popular female artist who is black. She made another mistake. We need to point this out as quickly as popular. And even though the mistakes were something to be addressed, and they eventually were, it is important to let people also realize that there is a pattern, even just among these two, but if we had another three hours to talk, which we don't today, we could really analyze that so many of the past history of these lyric changes, these offensive lyrics, ableist language. A lot of them have been pointed out and analyzed, but toward the black artist or the non-white artist, and you see a lot less of it come up when it is an artist such as Eminem or Taylor Swift. Eminem, who is hugely infamous for blatantly using ableist language such as the word R-word, "retarded," and many, many others, but Taylor Swift uses and has used the lyrics in her own songs, which include "lame" and "psycho." And it is important today, even though these artists perhaps have a more, even though they are white, even though they are more pop than R&B or than rap or whatever, Eminem, he's just, "Oh, he's just that way, you know? "It's just where he's coming from. "It's who he is. "What else can be done about it?" I would encourage folks to not give out passes so quickly to certain artists, and to really keep in mind who we're holding up against certain standards and making sure that that standard applies across the board.

- Agreed, and I-- we'll be talking about language and ableism in a couple of more episodes, and I think we'll probably dive a little deeper into this in another one. Because as you said, these are-- these are not just lyrical changes that should have been made in these two instances. For sure, if we look at the history of music, we can see very clearly what other lyrics are certainly offensive, so I appreciate your thoughts on that. I think it is a very important part of the conversation as we talk about it. And before we sign off on this episode, is there anything else that either of you would like to add before we sign off?

- I just want to thank people for, for sitting and listening to us because this is how things begin to roll out, and you know, take these conversations and bring them to your families, bring them to your friends, and don't be afraid to communicate when you hear these offensive terms. This is, this is where it starts, so thank you.

- Erica, Nancy, thank you both so much for your time today. All of the resources mentioned in today's episode will be listed in the show notes below. And to our audience, make sure to stay tuned as we will continue our discussion on linguistic ableism as part of an ongoing featured series. We thank you for your continued support.

- Empire State of Rights: Closed Captioned has been brought to you by Disability Rights New York, your source for disability rights and advocacy. If you enjoyed our program, make sure to subscribe, like, and share this post. If there is a subject you would like us to discuss, please e-mail podcast@drny.org or comment below. Tune in next Wednesday, where we'll bring you more information on disability rights in the state of New York. The closed captioned and ASL version of this podcast is available on our YouTube channel. To listen to more Empire State of Rights: Closed Captioned, follow us on Apple Podcast and Spotify.